I was told when I was a young boy that if I wanted to avoid problems, don't bring up a discussion on religion or politics. I believe that was sound advice, but we are beginning to see more and more evidence of a possible disclosure that won't allow this advice to be followed anymore.
I would be very interested in your views on this. If you have faith in a higher power, and the US government did in fact officially announce that our planet had been contacted by beings from another world, what changes would you make? Would this admission change your religious beliefs? Speak your mind on this question.
Comments
Billy, I’ve adjusted religion according to what I’ve seen in science. I think most people with a science background already know there must be life out there besides us. I bet you have adjusted your believes also without too much problem. Others will be able to adjust also. Some will create nonsense fantasy alien-God relationships (as we see on the board sometimes). Others will see it in as another one of Gods creations. I don’t think people will have a hard time of it. I think you’re a bit too concerned about it. I don’t think many take the bible and other religious doctrines verbatim. There’s some room for intrepretation. I heard in a preCanna class that marriage wasn’t part of Christianity when it stated, but it has become an important ceremony in religion. Religious doctine will adjust accordingly. The Cardinals will get together and probably come out with some doctrine that deals with the new facts. Christianity has adjusted alot in its 2000 year history. Read a little history of all these changes (for example… the holy roman emperor defeating the Magyar and the muslims at the blessing of the pope. The massacre of the Cathars. Christianty did not want people to read and become educated at one time and burned books. Many changes, they’ll adjust.)
I am sure the Vatican is already aware of the volume of genuine evidence for the existence of other intelligences and ufos. Too many credible experiencers all over the world. For now we must stay good in the religion we are born into. It could be we have always been overwatched throughout time and just going through this process..for something that may be coming. Good question Billy you have made.
In fact, there is pretty sound circumstantial evidence that alien life and ruling on earth in the past is the source of most of our religions and the existance of the human race.
I think that we are living the Apocalypse. It started around 2000-2001, and will end around late 2012 according to Mayan calendar.
In this scenario we have to overcome some trials, e.g. 9-11, Iraqi invasion, fear of terrorism, fear of economic breakdown, fear of disasters, social and politic turmoil etc..
The alien invasion is one of these trials, possibly the worst ever seen. This aliens are (IMO) the biblic demon: they will try everything to cancel Jesus Christ from our lives. The goal is easier to achieve, because of the confusion of the Christian Church and the global dismay due to the alien disclosure.
Everyone that follows the aliens will fall with them in the Armageddon War.
It’s written in the Bible, ch. 13 and so on, but it’s too much simple to be believed….
P.S.: the aliens should be the “second beast” of ch. 13.
I think it depends on how prepared religious leaders are/can be for disclosure. The pope recently said that aliens would be considered one of God’s creations too. So, with enough message slike that disseminated through religious channels, it would help calm the populace. That means getting them on board first, which outside the vatican, is probably a little tricky. Would you trust some of today’s televangelists to handle the news well with their flock? Kind of a pickle…
The signs of impending disclosure aside, can there be a worse time to expect it than now, when Evangelical control in government is showing such dramatic growth?
Religion is religion, and I really don’t think it will matter to most who truly believe whether there are “aliens” or not. If God made us, then maybe the “aliens” are just a different “brand” of creature at the local deity Kwikshop, or a different type of Playdoh (lol). Yeah, dumb comparison, but we don’t know that God DIDN’T make them. And then, there is the possiblilty that they (aliens) made us, and GAVE us our religion because they are so advanced, they could wow us. The possibilities are staggering.
I for one, would be very interested in the “alien’s” view of religion to see if it compares with ours, but no, it wouldn’t change my religion. Unless they could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt (in MY mind…a scary place to be…lol), I’d still believe in God.
Maybe the Dogan tribe’s history sticks are right. I probably won’t be around to find out, if mankind ever does.
This would not change my belief because we have been told by the Bible that not only do aliens exist,but they have interbred with our population and are in fact manipulating and enslaving mankind for there own purposes.Adam was also brought here from another place,this is clear when the scripture says that the curse came to the earth with Adam.
I wouldn’t change a thing. My concept of my creator is certainly large enough to allow for other worlds and beings.
here’s a history of Christianity over the past 2000 year by Wikipedia. Gallileo was put on trial for believing the sun was the center of the solar system and not the earth. But there have been many significant changes throughout Christianity, all of which were pretty big…
…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity#Trial_of_Galileo
‘The Galileo affair, in which Galileo Galilei came into conflict with the Roman Catholic Church over his support of Copernican astronomy, is often considered a defining moment in the history of the relationship between religion and science.
In 1610, Galileo published his Sidereus Nuncius (Starry Messenger), describing the surprising observations that he had made with the new telescope. These and other discoveries exposed major difficulties with the understanding of the heavens that had been held since antiquity, and raised new interest in radical teachings such as the heliocentric theory of Copernicus.
In reaction, many scholars maintained that the motion of the Earth and immobility of the Sun were heretical, as they contradicted some accounts given in the Bible as understood at that time. Galileo’s part in the controversies over theology, astronomy and philosophy culminated in his trial and sentencing in 1633, on a grave suspicion of heresy.’
Nope, it wouldn’t change my beliefs. Perhaps add to them….I think the atheists and the Satanists are just hoping it will.
all religions come from a higher power of one sort or another,god,jesus,allah etc..if et’s proved to be real and responsible for our existence then all religions would be proven b.s…….PERIOD!
God created everything.I am sure the oldest religions know science is science Gods days were not like our days.Do people forget there are many mansions he goes to prepare a place for us.I truly believe in God.Seeing what I have seen doesn’t make me believe any different than yesterday.I know that alot of people that say they believe better get off there high horse and really believe.Religion have kept us on the staight and narrow now is the time to show how much you trust in God.Our people have lots to prove to God before we get to see our neighbors out in space.If people panic because of what is happening then they had no faith or strenght.People will panic because of all those scary movies out there.I think it is just wonderful no matter what they look like they are still our brothers and sisters out there.Lets hope they are not like us lets hope all wars and evil disapear I hope at last we will all get along and prosper and grow into being what God wants us to be.I hope and pray people don’t panic and everyone opens there arms wide open in a peaceloving way.They may be more advanced than us but they are here to show us I believe with all my heart the love of neighbor. They come to watch us so we don’t blow up our planet I know they want us to work at cleaning our earth.They have alot to teach us.It is time for all goverments to admit that we have been in contact I don’t think they need to be threatened by our goverments.We all need to work in peace and stop fighting one another.They see us as agressors and what away to meet new friends.Like I have always said there are good and bad in all races.Even if we bleed different colors.Throughout the world people make fun of other people if they are different that us. IT’S TIME TO SHOW WE ARE ABOVE THAT.Fear is not knowing but it is time to change that also.Lets all change for the better of mankind.If enough of us stop and turn around and smile at the next person and carry on like that our world would be so much better for that.Lets start helping one another lets start being kind and giving.They have never created a war with us.Yes some people get abducted but because of fear we imagine all sorts of bad bad stuff happening to us. We panic.I know I would probably die if I was abducted because my imagination runs wild.When they probe us they hurt us at least some are hurt. I hate that but maybe because we panic.At least they could put us asleep first.But maybe they don’t know no better.All I know is our world is going to hell and we need all the help we can get.My friends think I am nuts.One told me only 144,000 people get to go to heaven I don’t believe that for one minute. There are many good people out here that deserve to go with God also.God has many faces and many worlds and I know there will be more.Look believe what you want to believe but please start working at peace not with evil thoughts.They will come and when they do hopefully I am right that peace is what they want.Like I said hope the good ones come first cause I am sure there are bad ones out there also.just like here.We need to live in peace and it all starts at home teach love and kindness for your fellow person(man and women)Do not be weak be strong even if it takes believing in something you don’t believe in it will keep you strong.Anyway God bless you and keep you safe.
I don’t adhere to religion as i feel it holds back our spiritual growth..Many doctrines are in place that prevent many people in religions to really touch the source..Religion appears to control too many people which makes me question many aspects of it..Religions create conflict which is as far away from the source as you can get..I hope we will all advance enough to realize that the universal mind(creator) encompasses everything in our universe…
It won’t change my religion or how I believe in my God. God created the heavens and the earth. Even the pope says if et’s are real then he welcomes them as they will be our brothers and sisters. Could we be so naive to believe we are the only life to exist?
What religion??!!
And come to think of it what aliens!!!
For all of you that believe in god, read the book ‘the god delusion’
And don’t be so pathetic to call me close-minded, as I don’t close my mind by thinking everything is attributed to a god. Show me some real proof that god exists which can stand up to scientific scrutiny before claiming it as factual. You see, the scientific community doesn’t have to prove god doesn’t exist, it is you religious people that first have to prove that it exists before any further intelligent conversation can progress betweeen those 2 kinds of people. It’s the equivalent of me claiming a giant pink flying elephant exists on the moon, and me then saying it must be true because I know it’s true and you cannot disprove it. It’s all pure madness people, and religion is the maddest human creation that has ever graced this planet. Start using critical thinking, and get rid of this nonsensical leaps of faith.
Just to make one point clear, that is thinking the answer to everything is that god created it without showing real proof of this, is the most closed-mindedness that any human being could ever become
I don’t know about others but I’ve found that I cannot personalize or limit the Eternal Power. If this Deity could create the universe, I’m pretty sure that populating it would pose no problem.
For **** sake humans are just another ape, nothing special, just one step in evolution. I’m sure there’s much more evolved species elsewhere in the universe, hopefully fully progessed beyond needing to believe in a god
Who cares if some people lose their religion? Everything else in the modern world has that effect on some people. Religions will either adapt in some way to aliens or they’ll die and new ones will replace them that can deal with a new reality.
I do know that some denominations teach that we are the only intelligent beings that God is dealing with. To those the idea of aliens would adversely affect their faith. The Bible however supports the idea of beings elsewhere. See Matthew 24:31 where the Second Coming is described with Jesus sending His angels to gather His elect from the four winds and the end of the heavens. Heavens is defined as “universe” and translated that way in some versions including the Amplified Bible.
Since I found that I am an abductee and have had direct contact with living aliens my faith has grown not diminished. I believe that they are fallen beings just as man is and they are not to be trusted. Their actions toward the people that they abduct make this clear.
@ The Flying Fisherman
In response to your bible babble, go see a psychiatrist, and then a doctor to sort out your sleep paralysis episodes.
you have to remember the era when most religion was created - about 500BC-500AD. People needed to have an organized believe system at that time. Buddhism, Christianity and Islam all came about during this time period. Mankind is more advanced these days, we are more based in science and less in superstition (with the exception of fisherman and some others). It is possible, as Ray said that prior religious fiction (or near fiction) is holding mankind back spiritually. Think how many brutal acts of war and inhumanity were the result of one religious philosophy against another. This is not to say that I don’t believe in God, but there’s a possiblity that he maybe something less traditional than the figure we’ve been accustomed to in religious doctrine. I think that a good part of religious doctrine comes from folk tales.
For those of you who haven’t read it… I recomend an excellent book..’THE GODS OF EDEN’ by William Bramley.. Extremely thought provoking…
It wouldnt change my beliefs in God or Jesus but would just mean that other things were created by him as well. God is still the creator of all things.
And marlio you are the talker of most garbage, until you can prove your claims
We must agree we are all part of the Universe and what lies beyond our imagination. Our Creator/God therefore is within us all even John.
What Billy is sounding us out for is the psychological impact when the unknown presents itself. Commonly is the anger and amusement which is brought about by fear and not understanding. I have had encounters and believe me you feel different towards the world but you still carry on with your life. The only thing that I still do not understand is why what people are seeing is so diverse. Thats the mystery for me.
I don’t believe in organized religion. So discolsure would not effect my beliefs at all.
It may probably change, since we are at the end of times.. But for me it somewhat rocked my belief and it’s because of what happened to me. Yes, I was abducted when I was 3-5 years old, I was so young then, I barely can’t remember any of it.. But as this time approaches, images of what had happened to me became more and more clearer than ever before by dreaming about it.. I don’t know who to talk to but even though things from my past had been dug up, I still believe in God as the supreme being that created everything in the first place..
Why does it matter what your beliefs are as any disclosure or non-disclosure reveals the truth and what is reality. What’s the point of beliefs if it will upset you if they’re ever proven wrong? It’s about time people just accept what we know as reality so far and stop with this make-believe nonsense ing god, and if aliens exist then that would be reality, and there’s no running away from that. Same if the aliens could prove to us that god exists, then fine if our scientists fine the results conclusive then that would also be fine. Don’t be scared of what reality is and forget your fairy-tales
Tricky subject there… I think there are a lot of things to think about. I’ve seen a lot of christian based comments saying ETs are demons or fallen angles etc. In the Disclosure Project there’s a guy who said the government had cataloged 57 different species of alien. I find it hard to believe that every extra terrestrial in the universe is a demon or bent on destroying god. If one looks at the biblical prophecies for answers I can see where some species of alien would fit into the “evil” descriptions while others may not. I think it’s too wide an issue to think about in stark contrasts of “black & white.” If there’s anything I’ve learned in life it’s that there really isn’t much in the universe that’s black and white.
I was raised a Catholic and throughout my life of 23 years have referenced both the Qur’an (after 9/11 to better understand Middle Eastern religion) Old Testament and New Testament, philosphy books, and sociology books in an attempt to reach personal enlightenment, or perhaps to ground myself for a future in politics, or government. Personally I have always believed that the greatest argument for the existence for God/Aliens has been the overwhelming desire for Him/Them to exist. To this day I still believe in the existence of benevolence, and I have personal beliefs grounded in the elimination of vengeance, and pursuit of group progress. I have always looked for proof of God, and proof of ‘them’. As an observer it is unfair to make an assessment because those who believe in God have made “leaps of faith” in pursuit of Salvation, Enlightenment, Social Structure, or simple Traditional Values, or explaining an unexplainable experience whereas those who believe in ‘them’ have either had an encounter or have done (hopefully) a great deal of thorough research. No experience of my own has every convinced me of either claim, however I reitarate the difference in mindset one chooses to be in before actually coming to a belief in one or the other, i. e. denial of the other side. I now make the following partisan statement, on aforementioned premises. In researching the truth to either sides claim, history favors the origins of extra terrestrial claim. I cite such pre-christian religions as the Sumerians (humanities first great civilization), some North American Indian cultures, and certain South American Cultures. Religions themselves have a proven record of disagreeing. To quote the late Carlin.. “More men have died in the name of God then for any other reason.” This quasi-fact is enlightening in and of itself. If Humankind is so in pursuit of self betterment, is it really important which road we individually take to get there, or are we all not pursuing the same great philosophy. Consider, Understand, Respect, Love, and Provide. Whether you are waiting for the Greys to save us or Jesus, or whomever your messiah might be, He, or they, all ask of us to do one thing, as competent individuals - “Manifest Peace Via Generosity” Our personal self interest is the common Evil all philosophies and religions warn against, and God is ALWAYS external. Beliefs in ones self gain is always frowned upon and belief in the better of the whole is always promoted.
Live and let Live. Peace be with you. Shalom.
LIGHTEN UP JOHN !
are you on this site to put down others who do not believe as you or are you interested in UFO’s and their impact on us?
@ Motherpann
You say to lighten up, I’m just pointing out facts, and I could tell you to live in the real world and not some fantasy land.
I think people too readily believe in aliens visiting earth when they see unexplainable lights in the sky, when they are just that - unexplainable, and so a ufo. That does not necessarily mean alien. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if aliens are visiting earth, it’s just that tin-foil hat people tend to damage the reputation of even people who just speculate on these things. And about god, don’t waste your time thinking you know all the answers. Just accept some things are unknown to us, and you may never know. The only way we’ll understand things about life is thru’ science and that takes decades of research. The reason why I say this is because if you’re all wrong about your beliefs, then it could harm you when parts of it are proven incorrect. Already most religions have crumbled at their base by the impact of scientific evidence, and those who still believe in things like creationism are vastly delusional. There is no way that the mountains and mountains of collected documented scientific evidence, which can be measured, repeated and undergo scientific scrutiny, and so deals with factual information, can be outdone by a book you call the bible which is just a collection of stories in a book with an no known author. If you claim it to be the word of god then prove god wrote it. You can’t as your only evidence is hear-say and not even anecdotal, whereas ufos are at least anecdotal evidence although not actual proof of aliens. Rigorous scientific experiments produce hard facts, and so can be taught in science classrooms. Religions produce nothing but beliefs and leaps of faith, and so cannot be represented as factual and so should be kept in religious lessons.
Using critical thinking is a major part of how you should perceive life and everything around you. This is just factual and not in any way part of a fantasy world which religions perceive things as.
For what science cannot answer right now, just wait and see what is reality, don’t try and make it up as you’re probably going to be wrong. That’s just as it is, and if you can’t see that then you’re living a delusion.
If you still think there’s a controversy between science and religion, well that’s just misinterpretation on your part. Both are absolute opposites, and those who claim the controversy such as human footprints around from when dinosaurs were around are claiming evidence exists which has alreay being de-bunked. Don’t listen to those people who talk garbage, listen to what scientists have to say, don’t read fanatical religious texts as more than fiction, and instead read science blogs, magazines, scientific news articles, and then you’ll understand how scientific rigour actually operates. Again it’s usually a misunderstanding of science when people assume it’s a belief system, and so the same as religion, but IT IS NOT, SCIENCE IS FACTUAL, and religion is MAKE-BELIEVE.
And the same about aliens, why do you need to believe that aliens created humans? If they did so what, you’re still the same person as you were before. Just wait and see whatever the truth is, it just is. You can’t run away from reality, and just deal with things as they happen and don’t try and find all the answers in one go, as that is completely impossible by our current means.
It’s beyond reason that anyone would want to assume something to be true that could actually be false. Of course speculation is fine, but to base your whole life around something which one day in some cases has, and in other cases probably will be proven to be incorrect, is absolute madness, and can be harmful to yourself and others. For example if you believed so strongly in god and only life on earth existed by your beliefs. Then it could and probably will cut you off from reality when aliens make contact, just for the sake of an example, as we don’t have confirmation of any aliens existing for now. That could cause psychological damage to the person, as they would deny reality as it stands basically. Maybe even certain types of Muslims would call a Jihad against them thinking they were the devil. Do you realise how stupid people can be, well they are going to be even more idiotic than your wildest imaginations. That is almost guaranteed if aliens ever make contact. All because of silly beliefs which hold them back from reality.
If you are offended then you’re wrong to be, as this is just reality. I am not being overly serious, I’m just saying things how they are. And for anyone to use religion to argue against science is offensive to anyone who prefers to live in the real world because SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION deals with facts, and religion is nothing more than an opinion and so without proof can be put down and should be put down. Note that scientific theories are speculation only for now at best and so different theories can be argued, but at no point changes the large base of scientific knowledge we have already accumulated. Although these theories are mostly based on previously collected evidence and are in all ways a better representation of reality than what any religions have put forth so far.
Please may I quote that in the Catholic church mass every week we all say together a prayer:
We believe in one God
the Father the Almighty
Maker of heaven and earth
of all that is, SEEN AND UNSEEN
This is of comfort to me and other experiencers no doubt.
@ shirley
And if that’s found out to be an incorrect statement in your lifetime, as you have no proof to back it up, therefore it probably will be as incorrect as me just making something up as well, then how would you feel?
I would hazard a guess that you would be angry at yourself and feel a little silly for wasting your time deluding yourself.
Do you not realise that your words are so vague, and typical of what people described things from the times when religions first started. Even much after then, people thought the earth was flat, thru’ incorrect human perception of reality. Most things stated back then have been proven not to be accurate, and if you used critical thinking you would realise that religions are exactly the same.
Why don’t you read up on science, there’s plenty of wonderous things which we know as fact which you can get excited about, and take comfort in. For example, that we’re all part of an evolutionary trip which will take our descendants to higher forms of life, as those which adapt better to environments pass their genes onto off-spring. Just imagining how humans will be in a million years is astounding enough, and looking at how far humans have come, without worrying about questions such as why, just concentrate on those answerable one’s such as how and when. And making up answers does not really answer those questions that you so wish to know. Another point is that people from Africa did migrate to Europe, and over time their skin changed to lighter colours to cope with lower temperatures. Note that darker skinned people don’t get sun-burnt as easily, as they’re adapted to their environment. And people in Scotland are adapted to colder climates, and so tend to be paler. That’s a great example of natural selection and how evolution works. You people always say there’s no evidence for evolution, but there’s evidence of it everywhere. It’s creationism that has no hard facts, instead that’s based on a belief system alone.
All humans are the fifth ape, that’s not a belief, that’s a fact, and you should learn to live with it.
John
As I stated before, my fiance who is now 69 yrs old saw many UFO’s in Illinois when he was an older teen or in his early 20’s. He and several friends watched US military jets chase these “UFO’s” away from the power plant. one night several citizens watched a “UFO” that stayed in the area for hours.
Also when he was hunting in the woods he saw a creature that was red skinned with pulsating veins, slotted eyes and very tall. And the next day he went back to the location where he saw this creature to see if he could find any evidence and he found his shot gun shell casings tore apart in a pile, including the brass part. Also he stood under the tree where the alien had been and he relized that the tree branch that had touched it’s head was about 8 feet off the ground.
My fiance is not a drinker, never did drugs, lived on a farm, didn’t read comic books or watch tv so there was no outside influence to help him have an overactive imagination.
I too get tired of people claiming they know it all, religion or science wise. Personally I need proof to believe in anything. I have experienced things when I was active in church that I can’t even begin to explain, but I also have way too many questions to accept the answer that so may religious persons use which is “God works in mysterious ways”. I have formulated my own opinion regarding aliens and ufos and how it figures with religion and frankly I don’t care what others think, I feel confortable with my beliefs and unless someone can come up with tanigable proof otherwise, keep your ideas to yourself. As far as quoting the bible or any other book of religion, a person has to believe in the book before they can accept it’s directives.
After flying in the USAF for over 22 years, I’ve seen some pretty unexplainable stuff flying around…no…I’ve never been really religious or anything like that….do I believe there are “Higher Beings”?…yes…but is it a spirit type of entity? I am not so convinced…but for some reason something from my childhood sunday school classes popped into my head the other day…If you look in the book of Genesis, there are 2 lines I’d like to direst your attention to…
Ch.1, Verse 26: “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion….”
If God was an all knowing spirit and HE created man…then why does it say in that verse “Let US make man….after OUR likeness…” The bible talkes like there are more than one being making mankind…
Ch.1 Verse 28: “And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea…”
In the above verse, how can you REPLENISH something that has never had any life on it to begin with?
Just food for thought…
Thoughts from the rest of you???
@ Motherpann
you said “I feel confortable with my beliefs and unless someone can come up with tanigable proof otherwise, keep your ideas to yourself.”
Then why do you feel the need to try and convince others of something you cannot prove. It’s human nature to speculate on things and to imagine aliens and other kinds of life forms, it’s perfectly normal. It’s just when people decide to call it fact, when actually we just don’t know is the only answer we have. There are all kinds of other reasons besides god, spirits, ghosts, aliens, bigfoot, and those are the mind playing tricks on you and psychological reasons which are both documented well. Sleep paralysis effects has been induced in people and life-like hallucinations occur. I’m not saying that answers everything, but as of yet these are provable, and there hasn’t been any provable cases of aliens, god, bigfoot and stuff like that. I’m not saying that those things are impossible, it’s just that we haven’t got credible proof of them yet. I’ve seen unexplainable things myself but you have to remember your mind fills in a lot of the blanks, and it is only unexplainable and not evidence of anything until we can prove what it is. That is all I am saying.
Also you are saying I have to prove evidence otherwise for things you cannot prove. Please that is silly. If I said a flying tortoise exists, and until you could disprove it’s existence, therefore it must exist. That’s the same nonsense as I could then tell you keep looking for it. You have to accept that science can only accept the existence of objects which can be observed, measured, repeated and then documented. If these things exists then one day the evidence will be there, so there’s no need to be bothered about what people think. Whatever the truth is, it is, simple as that, and you can’t really disagree with someone who works on those principles, otherwise you’re talking about fantasy.
I would not be surprised if aliens have been visiting earth, and what I’ve seen is what you could call a typical ufo sighting, which was unexplainable. But I don’t think it’s helpful for me to decide what’s right and wrong before I can confirm what the truth is, that’s if we ever do.
With western economic breakdown, and tensions with Russia, Iran and Pakistan, and maybe even N. Korea around the corner, now would be a good time for any possible observing aliens to make them known to us. We could be seeing conflict with Iran this month, or hopefully if aliens show themselves this won’t be necessary. But who knows, that’s the point, it’s just speculation and I can’t tell someone not to disagree because none of us can prove it’s going to happen.
Jesus has a plan for us all. You’ll see.
Who is this jesus fellow that you are imagining from a fairytale?
And Ike Turner, even if there was a plan for humans, how would you know this? And please be honest and accept that you are just guessing or following what other people have just blindly believed in. Therefore even if god and jesus did exist then you’d still be stupid to think they existed until proof was found, and at the moment you’re just guessing. So now tell me how using critical thinking logically how you can come to the conclusion that you have, and then you will be taken more seriously by people who use their brains.
Another point is the Nostradamus advert at the bottom on this webpage that talks about the coming world war. I’ve noticed the years for this to start have changed from 2006, then 2008 and now 2009. I suppose it will change to 2010 next year. Why do you host such adverts that are obviously nonsense, and even UK newspaper websites have this garbage on. It’s ridiculous. You lose entire credibility. And not to mention that promoting the very idea of a war could help start one. The very idea of predicting something which is possibly inevitable such as a flood and maybe even a war, which will eventually happen, and without a fixed date for this prediction, is bogus.
John
I never said I wanted YOU to prove your ideals to me, I said I was comfortable with MY beliefs and unless proven otherwise I will not change. BUT at least I am willing to listen with an open mind regarding other ideas. And not be so quick to judge them as crack pots living in a fantasy world or a druggie.
I also don’t care if you believe what my fiance told me, he has no reason to lie, and nothing to gain by making up such a story. Remember this happened 50 years ago before seeing ufos was fashionable, Before the internet and Star Trek on TV.
I am so sick of people using the excuse of sleep paralysis to explain away things, come on can’t you find another excuse, that one is getting old.
Funny I didn’t realize a person hunting in the woods could experience sleep paralysis when they are awake, walking. Drug free, non drinker as well. Oh I know maybe it was swamp gas clouding his mind, no wait, there are no swamps in Illinois forrests.
Speaking of silly, I have seen a tortoise fly, just after the dump truck hit him, it wasn’t a pretty sight. (sorry poor taste)
You strike me as someone who likes to argue just for the need to argue, I bet if a UFO landed on your front lawn and bigfoot, Jesus and little green men came knocking on the door you would explain it away to sleep paralysis, swamp gas, hallucinations from eating flying tortoise soup, and any other lame excuse just for agruement sake.
SORRY Billy didn’t mean to be so nasty I guess John brings out the best (or is that beast)in me LOL
@ Motherpann
you said “I never said I wanted YOU to prove your ideals to me, I said I was comfortable with MY beliefs and unless proven otherwise I will not change.”
Wrong, as you are trying to persuade me you’re right when you have no proof. And secondly you still don’t understand that it is not the job of someone to disprove your beliefs, it is the responsibility of you to prove them. Otherwise you have no basis on which to tell me what I’ve said is wrong.
I didn’t say things like sleep paralysis explained everything, I would be more surprised if it did. But that doesn’t mean you have evidence for anything other than an event was unknown, and possibly unexplainable. That’s the only real conclusion, unless you’re gonna’ list a whole load of super-natural things and psychological effects and then add at the bottom of the list - leave room for appendages, and assume list is possibly infinite. That’s why we say conclusion is unknown.
Whether or not someone believe what you or your husband is irrelevant, as you can’t prove anything, so that makes it only a story for us to read. You are using false logic if you think the conclusion can only be something like bigfoot or aliens etc.
you said “BUT at least I am willing to listen with an open mind regarding other ideas. And not be so quick to judge them as crack pots living in a fantasy world or a druggie.”
OK let me get this straight, I am open to any idea which can be proven, and all others are speculation or only a belief. And it is up to those making the claim to prove it. I never called you a crackpot or druggie. When I call something fantasy, it is meant as something that you accept as fact which cannot yet be proven. You have to admit even if you believe in god, that at least some of the religions are going to be partially wrong, and so we know for sure that some are living a fantasy. I have nothing against anyone who admits their beliefs aren’t anything but speculation or a guess, and so may be wrong.
you said “You strike me as someone who likes to argue just for the need to argue, I bet if a UFO landed on your front lawn and bigfoot, Jesus and little green men came knocking on the door you would explain it away to sleep paralysis, swamp gas, hallucinations from eating flying tortoise soup, and any other lame excuse just for agruement sake.”
Right some fun here I suppose. OK, I’m not replying here for the sake of arguing, it’s just I feel it necessary to point out false logic on your part. Even so if a UFO had visited you, because ET is not the only possible explanation for what happened, and so if you thought logically you wouldn’t assume it was definitly aliens until they got out of their craft and told you so. And even then it’s still only a story to everyone else unless you can provide me with physical evidence of their craft or the beings. Other possibilities like human psychology comes into play, and how do you know that the being you saw was telling the truth. So many variables, and so few answers.
If I knocked on your door and claimed I was Jesus, would you gullibly believe me, or anyone who did that? There are so many un-explored areas of our planet, it’s more likely than not that certain species still have to be discovered. But you still don’t understand that stories of what somebody saw on their front lawn does not equate to finding actual evidence of a creature’s existence. Now actually I have seen a UFO, and I can’t explain what it was, but that does not mean the only answer is aliens. If a UFO landed on my lawn, it would still only be an “unidentified flying object or landing object”. UFO doesn’t automatically equate to aliens. Now if they came out of their craft and spoke with me in depth that proved almost beyond doubt, that would be extremely difficult to not equate to personal proof of their existence. But you still have to understand that without proof to show someone else, of an item maybe that could only be from an ET ship, that you would only have a story to tell someone. And try as you might, you can’t convince someone who uses critical thinking that you definitely saw an ET craft and its occupants. That does not mean they’re not open to the possibility, it’s just that they’re not willing to accept that as the only conclusion.
you said “SORRY Billy didn’t mean to be so nasty I guess John brings out the best (or is that beast)in me LOL ”
Don’t be sorry, that’s unless you don’t mean what you’ve said, and so that would be different. It’s not abnormal for believers to get angry when their beliefs are questionned, as they know that’s all it is - a belief, which is unproven. And failure to come up with any appropriate points to validate their belief is commonplace.
Anyway I hope the tortoise landed in one piece, albeit probably on it back to be later squashed by a truck.
Let me start by saying that I completely understand where the both of you are coming from, however, the tone of your argument does no justice to the theme you have subscribed to. Your points, however well made, are littered with aggresive objections to the other side, I feel like I’m watching Obama/McCain. If you truly want to change minds you MUST have respect for your oppositions point of view.
Aggression indicates hostility, and no one is going to take advice from a hostile entity.
Regarding Science: History and Science are incredibly useful tools, which have done great things to advance our species. Great advances in technology have given us the ability to find cures for medicine and communicate globally. But Science is also responsible for the greatest propoganda machine of all time - Television. It has also given men the power to destroy entire cities with a single weapon, and to manufacture and distribute harmful viruses.
Regarding Religion: Spirituality has served all of mankind for longer than anyone can document. The need for answers is shared by all and religion, via faith, facilitates and end to that desire. Religion has brought thousands together who share a belief in the inherent goodness of mankind. It has taught us lessons that we tend to ignore in the history books. And it gives us strength, and hope, when all signs point to disaster.
Religion is also responsible for harboring the worst of mankinds tendencies. Wars, centuries of Hate, Sexual Deviance, Brainwashing, and Mass Suicide.
My point is this: Religion and Science are both tools. Every tool is a double-edged sword. The intent of the use of the tool you choose is either Good or Bad, not the tool itself. People have assembled in every imaginable faction to proclaim their possession of ‘truth’ throughout human history. Some have arrived at enlightenment, some used their power to manipulate minds, and every tool known to man, religion and science included, has been used to facilitate both of these means.
Where does that leave an individual?
Every one of us must respect different approaches, even if we don’t understand them.
John, Thank You for being a man of science, and defending its just use. I hope that your arguments are coming from a place of frustration, rather than disdain. As far as religion goes, If Jesus existed or not really doesn’t matter. His story is one of a persecuted man who brought hope and comfort to those without the means to find answers. Any person who is willing to die for a belief is someone whose story I am willing to defend. Without stories like his, why would any group of people unite against tyranny to uphold a belief, especially when all of the greatest minds in the world say it can’t be done. Where would America be in a world like that?
Motherspann: Your beliefs make you a person of great perseverance. Your message of hope is necessary in our hideous world. I only hope that your beliefs do not derive their strength from your desire for them to be true, nor your fear of eternal punishment, nor you need for eternal salvation. These are tools of manipulation that many philosophies use, not just religion. There are elements of the Bible that are absolutely not the Word of God, a thorough review of religious history will reveal a blatant plagarization of other cultures religious beliefs. There is also a very strong (sorry to say) ASTROLOGICAL presence in the stories of the Bible. Specifically, in terms of the Ages of the Zodiac, the timing of the Old, and New Testaments, and the descriptions of the major characters, and visions at the turn of the ages. Even Jesus’s birth has an Astrological reference to the position of Sirius (the North Star) and the Three Kings of Orions Belt pointing to the birth of the Son(the sun rises in alignment with these 4 heavenly bodies) on December 25th. Unfortunately, we can credit science for these mathematical facts. There are things that cannot be explained, and there are Miracles. But an absolute dedication to the truth of one Document that condradicts even other Documents that claim to come from the same source (the Word of God) is destined to be in dispute forever, or until one idea defeats another, and unfortuately the only way to prove a God doesn’t exist is to kill all of the people who believe in Him/Her. It may very well be that we are all pursuing the same diety, but by different paths, and I find that to be more comforting (and consistent with known history) than the absolute obsession with being the only one who “has it right”. When two people of different religious faiths debate, they often forget that they are both working toward the same end - peaceful, bountiful existence. The method is different however, and we tend to fight over the details.
Whether we build our house out of stone, earth, or wood, are we not attempting to achieve the same goal? Your tools are different, yes. But in the end, the result is the same. And no bricklayer will ever convice a lumberjack that he cannot build a house out of wood, nor vice versa. Instead, respect and appreciate the beauty of our different approaches, and have faith not only in your tool, but your neighbors.
“Every one of us must respect different approaches, even if we don’t understand them.”
Christianity and most other religions and especially the fundamental ones have been proven incorrect, without having to prove the non-existence of a god. Are we also to show respect for someone who claims 5+5=25 because they believe it to be so?!
Here’s a few pointers :
1. Earth has been proven to be around 4.5 billion years - fact.
2. Christianity claims 6000 years or so.
3. Earth took millions of years or more for evolution - fact.
4. Christianity claims it took 6-7 days.
5. There is no controversy about creationism and evolution. Evolution is fact, creationism is false.
6. Science does not claim non-existence of god, in fact it has nothing to do with science, as we don’t ever see any evidence of a god using rigorous scientific principles.
7. Feasibly anyone can believe whatever you want as long as it doesn’t contradict scientific facts, but beware science may someday prove those beliefs incorrect.
8. So therefore the logic step is to label those beliefs as speculative.
Talking of crazy stuff, it’s 15 degrees C at 2am in the UK where I am. And tomorrow afternoon weather report says 8 degrees C. I’m not an expert in this field, but this is absolutely insane!
First of all I was raised a Christian but didn’t like the false love my fellow church goers displayed and quit. 30 Years later I became a BA Christian and all my beliefs about UFO’s, ghosts and the supernatural were yanked away from me because there was no place for such “nonsense” as a BAC. I was slain in the spirit several times, I prayed in tongues, had instant healing and dealt with demons but still I questioned the whole religious realm and 25 years later I have changed my tune regarding the whole business.
I have seen pictures that were painted hundreds of years ago (if u can believe it) where Spaceships and Jesus, Mary and such were all in the same picture. I read passages in the bible that can only be explained, to me, in a scientific manner vrs a spiritual manner, as more alien, space ships and planet terriforming. So as far as my beliefs let’s say it is neither totally one or the other, I feel there is a more logical explaination then the story of creation.
Clinging on to religion is good for others because it is a good way to justify what is happening in their life. It’s a good way to control people especially women and children.
“God works in mysterious ways”, “the devil made me do it”, “God will provide” “My house blew away, my car destroyed, everything was taken away but praise God, cuz he looked after me” HUH?
Seems more like it is easier to do nothing and or accept what has happen in your life and explain it away with one of the above sayings.
Now if all of the sudden aliens and their spacecraft came along, what hope would people have? Would it would destroy their belief in God, heaven and such? Or would their “faith” see them thru? Would they all run to church and pray for God to protect them or would they fight if the aliens started attacking?
What if they came in peace would they just say God made them too and accept it as just another chapter in their life? I don’t know!
I realize that my fiance’s story can’t be proven and it never will unless a 8 ft tall red being shows up and say I was in Illinois in the 1950’s, remember me? (lol) But the ufo’s were seen by many town’s people as well as the military jet pilots who chased them away.
John sorry about your weather in UK it’s in the 80’s here in Florida!
And sorry to say the tortoise did not make it, it was very messy and I really have to say that I was quite upset to see the whole thing happen. I do love animals and I get angry that man is so busy building on every inch of land that he can find (greed) and in doing so destroying theland these animals, turtles etc live on/in. But that’s another story for a different blog site.
In my long 56 years on this planet, I have seen much, learned much, form opinions, changed my mind and fought to keep my beliefs intact. I know I will not ever convince all in what I believe but I do know there are many who do and I have been meeting them at a very surprising rate. Maybe like minded persons are finding each other to prepare for the upcoming events, I don’t know and I guess the answers will have to wait until I/we can see it, touch it, taste it and prove it to the non believers.
But until then it’s great fodder for debate!
With the weather thing, it’s twice as warm during the night than during the next day. That’s what I thought was odd.
Good and Evil R just human being concept, yeah there r good and evil (mankind concept) for reasons one of it (mankind is an intelligent being) no way to live with each others without good and evil, each one will kill the others without good,,,,,or,,,, and without Evil there is no meaning to Good,,,,, no meaning to white if we didn’t know black,
human beings needs religion because they live in bizarre world so they need something to take it as a core of this life to feel safer, but I’m sorry to say there is something intelligent know these facts and exploit mankind (semi-humans “nomads”)from long time (time too is just mankind concept there is mechanisim to feel and recognize time but its not exist), almost things we heard about miracles behind it other intelligent beings “entities”, yeah there r telepathy, parapsychology, supernatural,,,, but what we can’t make scientific explain to it, we’ve to be more aware of it, proving the existence of other intelligent entities is very easy (definitive proof).
-intelligence is essential for human survive, this is nature (science itself), its a kind of creative powre,
a real humankind is coming no more semi-humans.
========================================================================================
allot of things in human aspect is very low,, like the concept of begin and end (limits) of this universe, when U’ve the ability of speed above the speed of light we’ll change the concept of limits, yeah the relativity theory and quantum mechanics laws, I know that quantum mechanic is behind part of our progress nowadays but it will not work in future “like Newton’s laws in the outer space”, even the future generation will not take us as a real humans “mentally”, Is speed of light the highest speed? there r more strong laws above speed of light, (how order came from disorder, law without law, in big bang theory!), this part needs long message the perception of human being depends on his ability, capabilities, (facilities)… but if he has ability for more speed his way of thinking will change and his look to the universe will be change I know relativity theory (life not easy at all)…… I read a lot of theories some of them about evolution, punctuated equilibrium,,, its nonsense whose wrote it has low level of thinking, sometimes shame on intelligence of mankind,,,, what we can’t understand doesn’t mean has no scientific rules.
========================================================================================
Faith is a belief in the trustworthiness of an idea that one has not been proven formally and cannot prove formally its “Dogma”, means don’t use ur brain just beleive in, so when you became inside Religion Cage, you can use ur mind because you’re already inside the cage.
the absurdity is (I want to ask you do U think that God has low level of thinking to make many religions! or he wants mankind to kill each others, or he cannot keep one religion for all mankind or or he wants to test semi-humans!!!, even they don’t understand themselves nowaday, just imagine Mankind in the past!!! so U think they’re more intelligent!!!, somekind of intelligence, used Mankind low level of thinking to get their goals, I’ve plain proofs, every thing in this universe is govern by science.
========================================================================================
Mr. Bonehead always weak, that’s why he looking for God to feel safer “his mind not up to face this bizarre world, to find reasonable explaination”, do you think that God will test semi-human like them, this is nonsense the concept of good and evil is just mankind concept, every body should know, we did nothing in science, even we didn’t open the gate of science yet, to make a real Artificial Intelligence we’ve to know what’s perception unit, cognition, even our concept about perception, cognition,,, isn’t accurate, whats exist now a days is not Intelligence at all.
MY BEST REGARDS.
@ mouron
you said “a real humankind is coming no more semi-humans.”
Please explain your dithering. I know I’m a human, are you one of those semi-humans?
SCIENCE AND CREATION IS A DOUBLE SIDED COIN…
evolution of the human race isn’t bacterial soup to humanity,,,,there was intervention…this caused our relegions in the first place…as for science it needs to stop being so arrogant..just open your minds and you will find the truth…
@ I’veadenough
How dare you call Science arrogant. You misunderstand science and you are completely ignorant. Religion is the most arrogant piece of garbage ever! You lot claim you know everything, science does not!
You can argue against sound scientific fact all day long, but you would be wrong. These facts have been determined from sound research with actual evidence, and religions like christianity contradicts some of these facts. Just because you think something correct, it doesn’t make it so. There’s something called evidence, which religions do not have.
Again I say that Science doesn’t claim to know everything, and does not go about disproving things like god because firstly you have to prove it’s existence before anyone has to disprove it.
You claim you are more open minded but in actual fact you are closing your mind to god being the only answer. Where science has an open mind to any potential answer, but science doesn’t claim mystical answers like you do! And saying we don’t know the answers to some things is being honest, and not deluding yourself like your are.
You people keep coming out of the woodwork, get yourself educated and read some science books. Forget your fairytale bible, and read about evolution. Oh no I forgot, you’re too closed-minded to care about anything apart from your false god.
And last of all like all religions you’re a complete hypocrite. You are using a device called a computer, which is the product of scientific advancement, and you are also putting down these achievements at the same time.
Note I never claimed god didn’t exist all the way thru’ this, but ask for evidence of something’s existence before accepting that it exists. And why would a god be so stupid as to give me the ability and intellect if he wanted me to worship him like a robot.
Oh and if there is a ******* god, then I would not want to go to heaven if idiots like you are there. LOL
@ i’veadenough
Right some quick-fire answers to your points, since you can’t spell or write proper sentences this might be easier for you to understand.
you said “evolution of the human race isn’t bacterial soup to humanity”
Correct it’s not. Evolution is much more than that. Read up on natural selection to prove that you’re so open-minded.
you said “there was intervention”
Maybe so, maybe not, that’s the point we just don’t know. Go and prove it, as if it’s a fact you should be able to. That’s what science does all day, and doesn’t attempt to quell reality like you do. At the minute without the evidence you can’t blame science for saying that’s it’s unlikely, that’s just how logic works. Try it sometime.
you said “this caused our relegions in the first place”
Which one’s?! Since they contradict each other they can’t all be right. Your logic seems to be ignore everything apart from your narrow-minded views.
you said “as for science it needs to stop being so arrogant”
Science has never been arrogant, and I can’t say it’s impossible for a scientist out of many to be arrogant, as everyone has their own mind. But to accuse the whole of science, that works hard every day making our lives better and expanding our great knowledge base, is poor judgement.
you said “just open your minds and you will find the truth… ”
What does that even mean!? Extremist christian views are almost as pathetic as extremist muslim views. Remember whatever the truth is you can’t change it to fit your own views, and science is striving towards further and further truths every day. Or should we just teach our kids at school that god did everything for us, and when someone needs to fix the heating, plumbing or electicals they should just wait for a miracle instead!
I know my mind is open to whatever the truth is. I doubt your’s will be, you would bend the truth to fit your medieval viewpoint.
Many examples of religions doing that are the following :
a). People once believed the Earth was flat and the centre of the universe and thinking otherwise was blasphemy. Now nobody can now dispute that the Earth is roughly spherical, or more exact an oblate spheroid.
b). People still believe the Earth is 6000 years old. The Earth is around 4.5 billion years old, if you dispute this check the evidence, understand what it means and then provide evidence for the contrary.
c). People still believe that the Earth was created in 6 or 7 days or thereabouts. Evidence suggests the formation was on the scale of millions of years, and greater.
d). People still believe life was created by god in a really short time… it’s funny how creationists don’t actually claim how long it took for god to do this. Evolutionary evidence proves life evolved over millions of years from generation to generation by natural selection.
e). If aliens ever make contact religions will adapt their views to interpet new changes in what we know. Do you actually think god comes down and tells us adjustments to your beliefs are necessary to fit in with your new reality, no, your religious leaders change the rules. For example, the Muslim leaders have updated their religious texts about holy wars and using artillery, guns and stuff (wierd I know), and the pope has now claimed it is ok for life on other planets to exist. Duh, like it didn’t already exist without him allowing it. And religions now calling evolution god’s work or something silly like that.
Now just a point about the common misinterpretation about evolution that you guy’s tend to do. Firstly when you say ‘how can man be from apes’ this is incorrect even as an arugumentative point. That’s because what science said is that man and gorillas, chimpanzees etc have the same ancestors from millions of years ago, and they branched out in different directions when they adapted to their own environment. We are product of one line of evolution, and gorillas, chimps went down their own line of evolution. Since we all have the same ancestors from way back we are all classified as apes. The current setup is by no means the final solution of evolution, and in fact it’s quite likely that some humans will have evolved down a further line of the tree into another kind of species. Intelligence is just another part of evolution, and eventually human descendants may lose this ability, and other creatures’ descendants may gain this ability.
For your information I have degrees in geology and astronomy…I do not adhere to relegions as frankly they don’t interest me.
In the circles I was studying in,there was a lot of arrogannce concerned with many new ideas..Some professors seem afraid of change..I am totally aware of evolution/natural selection and Lucy being the ancestor of primates…but there is a lot more to the story..I won’t lay it all out for you you need to do your own homework…Science/technology is wonderful just don’t take everything you’ve been taught for granted…There are going to be some surprizes up the road…Please….try not to be so angry..Regards..
Hi Bill,
first thanks for the regular postings. Regarding religion and aliens it is impossible for us to be the only planet with any form of life and who is to say that alien beings do not have similar religion’s to ours! Too many legends of old point towards the stars and life on distant planets, even Jesus said “in my Fathers house there are many mansions” and I take that as a reference to life on other planets.
Take care
I would really like to know why everyone is so fascinated with Mars having ruins… Considering we made it into space in the late sixties using tin cans (by technology standards of today), why are we not looking at our Moon and other moons of our solar system for signs of exoarcheology?
I asked a Catholic priest this very question because I am Catholic. The Catholic church believes that we are not alone in this vast universe. How could we be?
Our religion would not change.